How Stephanie Perry & Roshida Dowe Are Empowering Black Women & Families to Move Abroad via The ExodUS Summit

[00:00:00] Welcome to Black Expat Stories, the show where we dive deep into the experiences of Black people across the diaspora

[00:00:05] who have boldly decided to immigrate abroad in search of a better life. I'm your host Courtney Bowden and I'm a Black American writer

[00:00:12] who also took the leap of faith and moved overseas. Coming to you from my home in Plano, Carmen, Mexico, I'm taking you on a virtual voyage

[00:00:20] to meet two trailblazers who are empowering Black women to reimagine their lives and write new life chapters. You're going to meet Stephanie Perry and Roshida Dowe,

[00:00:29] the dynamic duo behind the Exodus Summit. This annual event has become the go-to sabbatical summit for Black women

[00:00:36] travelers ready to plan their career breaks for their moves abroad. Now it's fifth year,

[00:00:41] the Exodus Summit is one of the most highly anticipated events in the Black Travel space and has been

[00:00:46] featured in publications like Essence, Condinast and More with a vibrant, highly engaged community of over

[00:00:53] 18,000 Black women. It's a treasure trove of inspiration and practical guidance for those looking to take

[00:00:59] that leap. In this episode, we'll unpack Stephanie and Roshida's transformative journeys from the

[00:01:04] constraints of corporate America to the freedom of global citizenship. We'll explore how and why they've

[00:01:09] joined forces to revolutionize the concept of the sabbatical and early retirement for Black women.

[00:01:15] We'll also dive into some other thought-provoking topics like why these high-cheating ladies

[00:01:19] are now rejecting the concept of Black excellence. They're take on the upcoming U.S. election,

[00:01:25] and what is exciting them right now about the emerging Blacks movement. From funding strategies

[00:01:29] for your move abroad to candid discussions about the political climate, fueling this Exodus,

[00:01:35] our conversation promises to challenge your perspectives and inspire your own journey of reinvention.

[00:01:40] Here's my conversation with Roshida and Stephanie. Hey Stephanie Roshida, welcome to Black Exfatt Stories.

[00:01:53] Hello, hello. I'm so thrilled to have you both here with me today. How are you doing?

[00:01:58] Doing well. Doing well. Happy to have all. We're doing great. We're excited to see you here.

[00:02:03] So I'm really glad to hear that and before we dive in, I wanted to say how much I admire the work

[00:02:09] that the both of you are doing. You're truly showing Black women everywhere. How

[00:02:14] possibilities to reimagine their lives and write new chapters and it's incredibly inspiring

[00:02:20] which is exactly why I've been looking forward to this conversation. So now I know that we have

[00:02:25] folks listening and watching from all over who may not be familiar and maybe hear in your stories

[00:02:31] for the first time. So Stephanie, if you don't mind, I'd love to be game with you. You're

[00:02:35] returning to Exfatt Hood is pretty incredible. You went from working in pharmacy to traveling the world

[00:02:40] and helping Black women take career breaks. What inspired you to take a sabbatical for yourself?

[00:02:47] And why do you believe Black women need them? I originally just wanted to take us about a

[00:02:52] call or career break a gap year because I wanted to travel to some places that my job was making it

[00:02:58] impossible for me to go to. I had vacation time at work and PTO but anytime I would put in a request

[00:03:04] they would give me like five days, they gave me three days and not three consecutive days. Right.

[00:03:08] And so if I wanted to go to Southeast Asia, if I wanted to go to Europe in Australia, I needed to,

[00:03:14] I was going to have to do something other than just take my regular vacation days.

[00:03:18] I was going to have to take some drastic action to see the world. The reason though

[00:03:22] that I think that Black women need it and I think it's the best thing a Black woman can do for

[00:03:27] ourselves is that we are so accustomed to wearing the badge of hard worker, workhorse,

[00:03:36] that we don't even recognize it. We don't recognize how work centric our lives are. We don't

[00:03:43] recognize how much we're expected to do until we get to take that badge off, take the whole

[00:03:48] costume off and find out what's really underneath. I think that there's nothing better

[00:03:53] that we can do for ourselves to take time in your adult life when you don't work. When you're not

[00:03:58] obligated to be anywhere and do anything in particular and you get to exercise the actual freedom

[00:04:04] that we say we have in our lives. I love career breaks, sabbaticals, gap years because it changed

[00:04:12] my whole life. As you were talking, I was thinking about something that Zorneil Hurston

[00:04:19] once said is that the Black woman is the new little world and so we're expected to carry all of these

[00:04:26] burdens and keep going almost like the energizer bunny and what I hear you saying is that it's

[00:04:32] important for us to take that break. I believe that rest is also part of the work and we don't

[00:04:39] talk about that nearly enough. So I'm really glad that you were able to take that sabbatical

[00:04:47] change your life and also help other women do the same. So Rashida, your story is equally as fascinating.

[00:04:55] You're all here living your best life as a retired woman in her forties. That is on common these days

[00:05:01] and it's really inspiring especially in the U.S. We're having conversations right now about raising

[00:05:08] the retirement age to nearly 70 right? So how are you able to hit fast forward on retirement and what

[00:05:15] finally made you say that's it I'm out of here and shelter the dances to the U.S. and your locker

[00:05:21] career. So it's a great question for some background I started working when I was 12 before I retired

[00:05:28] to six-month periods from a time I was 12 where I was not going to school and working or one

[00:05:35] be other all the time. And so when I got to 38 I was tired. I already working 26 years and one of

[00:05:44] the things I heard from women when I retired early was like, well I've been working longer. You'd

[00:05:49] like kind of like a you don't deserve it. I've worked so much longer. I've been working for 30 years.

[00:05:54] I'm working for this and it hurt a little but not personally it hurt that this woman felt like

[00:06:02] she couldn't or didn't have a break. She couldn't have one or wouldn't take one because

[00:06:06] a woman just won't take one and so she was telling another black woman that they don't deserve,

[00:06:12] right? But thing that she doesn't seem to be seeking for herself or if she is they be she can't

[00:06:17] achieve yet but maybe she can one day. I know all of our stories are different like I said

[00:06:20] if I was doing an extracurricular activity in school like even high school I had to pay for

[00:06:25] right like I wanted to be on the track team I had to buy those shoes right like I had to pay for

[00:06:32] so college I had to pay for that nobody else paid but me right tired and so when my

[00:06:40] the company was working for one of business I was like what if I just took it a year off right

[00:06:46] and then they taken a year off. Once you take a year off it's so hard to go back it's almost impossible

[00:06:51] to go back and so I always looked at my story as like if I can tell my story and I can inspire

[00:06:58] women who thinks oh I haven't been working hard enough or long enough to take a break you know

[00:07:04] and I mean like I haven't been I'm not 60 I'm not 70 I'm not a retirement age I can't do that yet

[00:07:09] if a woman can see my story and say maybe it is possible for me right like I think I've done my job

[00:07:15] and so yeah my story is I worked really long time I worked in positions that made it hard to

[00:07:21] work and made it very unpleasant and so when I got a break I was like let's take a break right

[00:07:26] that lay off I'd laid up twice both times we were blessing right both times changed my life and it was just

[00:07:34] seizing that moment and doing the thing that I my body needed and then see if ever happened on

[00:07:39] the back end happened right like yeah it's really interesting the the response that you got about

[00:07:45] your decision to retire I have to be fortunate enough to have an example in my own life my mother

[00:07:51] retired her first retirement and she wrote back to work but she retired initially at 45

[00:07:58] and I believe she got some of the same pushback as well and you know it can be hurtful

[00:08:05] and it can be jarring because it's like what do you mean I don't you've been working longer what

[00:08:11] you mean I don't deserve it and I just really think that you are shining example of what I believe

[00:08:17] our ancestors dreamt of I don't believe our ancestors dreamt of endless labor I believe they

[00:08:25] dreamt of the ability the freedom to travel the world like we do the freedom to connect and the

[00:08:32] freedom to really listen to our own bodies and take care of them so who does to you for doing that even in

[00:08:38] the midst of all of that pushback for our listeners who may not be watching and they may not be able

[00:08:44] to see the lower thirds here where each of you calling home these days and what drew you to those

[00:08:49] places I spent half of the year now for the last three years I've spent half of the year in Costa Rica

[00:08:55] I'm a house that are so I do a lot of popular around to different places and I do spend a couple

[00:08:59] months out of the year back in the United States but I'm in San Jose Costa Rica where I'm here because

[00:09:06] San Jose or Costa Rica is a place where you can have community you know some places you can move

[00:09:11] to but you're you may never be not welcome you may you're always going to be an outsider my

[00:09:18] brief experience with Costa Reakens years ago helped me to think at least that if I moved to Costa

[00:09:24] Rica I could have a full life I could have friends I could have community I wouldn't have to be on

[00:09:29] my own and just be a stranger in a new place I could be welcome there that's why I'm here food food is

[00:09:34] not the top choice Costa Rica is not a place you move to for really right to me all day every

[00:09:41] day okay you have to be okay with that but you can do it there come on down I think the people

[00:09:50] in Costa Rica seriously are some of the best people in the world and that was a big draw for

[00:09:55] me a big reason for me to come here it's also a place where you can get to a lot of other places

[00:09:59] relatively easily next to Cole easy for me to get to Panama easy about to go to Ecuador easy to get to

[00:10:06] so it's a nice location it's a nice place with nice people that's beautiful I received a word

[00:10:11] about you where are you calling home these days and what made you say this is the place for me

[00:10:17] I have lived in Mexico City since 2019 I visited a few times before I moved here and every time

[00:10:25] I came I fell a little more in love with it and one time I had a friend to meet me here for new years

[00:10:31] and we got to our hotel drop her bags went for walk and within like a minute of being outside

[00:10:39] at the hotel I said why don't I live here my friend just looks at me and says well why don't you

[00:10:44] and it was like wait that was one of the rhetorical questions girl like if you're happy to

[00:10:48] come out of my mind like like I didn't it wasn't a real question in my mind it was just one

[00:10:56] I was like well no no I want you to set it I was like okay so I don't know and it was

[00:11:05] I was in the middle of my one year around the world break my career break and I my left

[00:11:12] the bay area my plan was to move back to the bay but by the time this is just I left in

[00:11:18] May this was January by time January or end of December and December rolled around I was like

[00:11:23] I want to go back there not others anything wrong with it but like I had planned on

[00:11:28] taking my break in the stepping and tally back into my old life

[00:11:32] but on my break I became a new person who wouldn't fit in my old life and I was like I need

[00:11:38] a new place is a new a transfer in the beginning and so I take the chance I love it here

[00:11:43] food is amazing I have it up my viscosity has it over go story gap the food is outstanding

[00:11:49] I always it's a mega city and I am a big city girl I didn't know this until I started traveling

[00:11:55] some more I am give me the massive human capacity that's me I always say that Mexico City is like

[00:12:02] New York but with kind people nice kind people it's just it's very it's fast pace it's busy

[00:12:13] there's something always happening but at the same time I have the community that the

[00:12:17] Stephanie talked about people I love are here it's easy people to get to I've had more people visit

[00:12:22] me here in Mexico City than when I spent 10 years in Columbus I could not get her out of my apartment

[00:12:32] when I first moved out here see go go go home eventually we went to Meta to Mexico because she

[00:12:39] loved she loved Mexico so much but she didn't want to live in the big city she wanted a place where

[00:12:44] could not like a backyard to grow things to make us anyway she wanted the backyard and so she did that

[00:12:52] but yeah it's it's one of those cities that I always felt people like you're either you're either

[00:12:58] going to love it or hate it there's really very people who are in between they love it or hate it

[00:13:02] how is find more people love it than hate it yeah I really love Mexico City as a matter of fact

[00:13:07] I'm headed there next weekend for my third time and I feel like every time I go I just scratch

[00:13:14] the surface because like you said it's a mega city there's so much to do so much to see so much

[00:13:21] good food to eat and so I it is a place that I know our turn to again and again now I have not been

[00:13:30] to Costa Rica yet but it is definitely on my list and so I'll I'll have to check out San Jose

[00:13:35] when I do go Stephanie yeah so San Jose is not the draw in Costa Rica come go to the beach is

[00:13:45] go to the moon right go to the beach it's San Jose is a little drab and a little dull it just fits my

[00:13:53] means I think it's not worth a visit it's one of those places it's a nice it's a decent place to live

[00:13:59] but I wouldn't come on vacation here right okay you're gonna be bored it's gonna be

[00:14:05] raining it's not the most exciting place my life okay no it's it's a little sleepy city it's

[00:14:15] probably the least city a city you can imagine well it sounds like it has been charming for you

[00:14:24] and it fits like you said your needs so that's that's awesome and it's amazing how different

[00:14:31] paths can lead to similar destination so Rashida you live in Mexico City Stephanie you are

[00:14:38] in Costa Rica for part of the year so how did the two of you meet how do your paths cross

[00:14:43] and what made you to ultimately decide to become business partners so Rashida and I both took

[00:14:49] some time to travel the world and we both documented it on Instagram and we both had an Instagram

[00:14:55] follow an important yeah Courtney and she's out there life right she was like um you should

[00:15:04] me you know so she damn those both and was like do you know where she did do you know Stephanie

[00:15:08] Stephanie you do know Rashida and we both had YouTube channels or I like Rashida had a YouTube

[00:15:13] channel I think we both had YouTube channels at the time Rashida was like oh let's talk on my

[00:15:17] YouTube channel and that was the beginning of our friendship and what we didn't know you know

[00:15:22] business partnership and it was just because we were out talking our talking about the things that

[00:15:27] we were doing and we were attracting the same type of people the same person was like oh you guys need

[00:15:34] to know each other the wonders of the internet oh my goodness yes so we absolutely that was

[00:15:41] spring of 2019 in the fall of 2019 she approached me about doing something together on YouTube

[00:15:47] and it was low stakes you know you to me they wanted us to monetize it was like we'll do the

[00:15:52] staying the series we'll talk to people who are traveling around the world taking breaks

[00:15:57] I see what happened and like just do what that was it we're just gonna do this and it went well

[00:16:02] right we worked together well there were no issues and then summer late summer of 2020 she shows up again

[00:16:10] we were still talking in the mix but right she'll just begin she says she has a deck but I did not

[00:16:15] see that I did not see the presentation she showed up on my phone talking about we should do a

[00:16:20] summit together and I was like no but I guess yes okay what may just say no initially

[00:16:29] because she does I know no I said yes but in my brain in my brain I was like this

[00:16:35] because when back and up one of the people we interviewed in that video series told us we should do

[00:16:43] an event and what she said it I thought about in person and I was like absolutely not I'm

[00:16:48] sorry but I this is like this is yeah it's fall of 2019 right stuff yeah

[00:16:58] yeah I've been writing no yeah and then COVID happened in the morning of the house and everyone's

[00:17:03] online so finally I was like okay sure let's do this my brain is like I don't know about this

[00:17:09] but we did it the one thing we haven't told you yet is that Irbid your audience been out of pick

[00:17:14] up on yet is that we've never met so we did our first summit without ever meeting each other in person

[00:17:21] we met was it January the next year or winter was spring time the next year what's time

[00:17:29] we were meant we were holding a thing I was in Mexico City and she was in San Miguel de Ande

[00:17:34] so it's a four hour bus ride I took the bus out there with my mom we went out I met her

[00:17:39] and so yeah we had already done two business things together before we actually ever met in person

[00:17:46] that's so funny but that's the power of you know the internet social media

[00:17:51] and also I find that in this ex-pat immigrant lifestyle you often come across people who are just

[00:18:01] aligned with their values and with the way that they see life and so you know I've made some

[00:18:10] of the most beautiful connections here as well and the two of you joining forces have now created

[00:18:17] what's arguably one of the most highly anticipated annual events in the black travel space

[00:18:24] so for black women who are well actually let me back up let's talk a little bit about the

[00:18:32] ex-adissum it let's talk about what it is who it's for and why you believe it's necessary right now

[00:18:40] we think that when more people when more black women realize what life could be they are more

[00:18:47] open to trying something different so the reason that ex-adissum it exists the reason our conference

[00:18:53] exists is that we want black women to see other black women trying things a different way

[00:19:00] right trying to moving abroad traveling around full-time taking career breaks and sabbaticals

[00:19:06] plural right in their lives and we want to bring in other black women who can say here here's how I've

[00:19:12] done it not just you should do it not just it's great you should do it but like here's how I did it

[00:19:17] here the steps that I took here the first you know approaches that didn't work here some things that

[00:19:22] did work it's a way for people to share what they know and for other for the women who are interested

[00:19:28] to learn to really get the information and also the community because we have the women in the

[00:19:37] ex-adissum it world have a desire to live life a different way and there's no way to live

[00:19:42] differently when there's so much pressure and pull to keep going on this path that we're already on

[00:19:49] we are supposed to be black excellence not black rest right we're supposed to be exhausted not

[00:19:57] rested we're supposed to put other people's dreams and desires ahead of our own and so

[00:20:03] because we want to do something really differently we have to create a place where it's normal

[00:20:08] so inside of ex-adissum it this kind of thing is normalized and we bring in other people to explain

[00:20:13] to them it just how normal it is so that they can then the women who attend the women who are part

[00:20:19] of our community can then see it as a real possibility Dr. Joy Harden Bradford from therapy

[00:20:25] for black girls calls our possibility models right so people can see that it's a real possibility

[00:20:29] and not just a daydream just like a fantasy it's something that can actually happen so that's why

[00:20:34] our event exists that's why our community exists I think it was a fanny luhamor that said

[00:20:40] nobody's free until everybody's free and there's it's that idea that like a so often black women are

[00:20:47] leading from the back or possibly leading from the bottom right in the sense that like we're tasked

[00:20:54] with saving so many things institutions people the world while also given so little resources and

[00:21:03] you know all the things we need and so it's kind of like if you put on your own oxygen mask first

[00:21:09] as a black woman then see what the world looks like to you right then then see what you can do

[00:21:15] and that's not a sort of like it for some people that sounds selfish right but nobody's coming to

[00:21:21] save you so if you're not self-like I'm selfish I got to say my life I'm moving abroad

[00:21:26] changed my life my mom saw me move abroad so my life was like here and moved to Meta

[00:21:32] and we'll tell anybody in a day that we car quality of life has increased tremendously

[00:21:36] moving from Florida to Mexico right and so in that sense my selfishness help save a member of

[00:21:43] my family right and I want other black women so the summit is for black woman and families it's

[00:21:49] the attendance we want to be a safe space for black women which is why we always say it's a black

[00:21:54] woman but we want black women with families to know but they can be the one in the family unit

[00:22:00] to say this is a new idea it might be scary for look at all these other people look at

[00:22:06] all these other families others parents all these other couples if they can do it maybe we can

[00:22:12] do it too right like when we all put on our own mask first we're saving ourselves and therefore

[00:22:18] maybe saving someone else and so it's really important to us that we do this as otherwise

[00:22:25] I'll be laying on my couch right now we can plant ages and sure we're gonna run one coat right

[00:22:29] like there's like a short if it's just Stephanie and I talk about this all the time but like

[00:22:36] we do this for black woman because we know that I don't want to say nobody else is

[00:22:41] but like it's not being done enough right not enough black women are looking out for themselves

[00:22:48] and right it's important to me as someone who was drowning at a job while also being black

[00:22:55] and excellent right I would have died there right like I know the stress from that job but

[00:23:02] it was doing in my body it would have killed me and there's no in a lot of the roles we

[00:23:08] feel whether that's at work in our family or a community there is no path to exit there is no path

[00:23:15] release there is no oh you'll be done being the caretaker when x happens right because a lot of us

[00:23:21] are just what you did a race you got kids you got parents what you don't do like where where is your

[00:23:26] free time when do you get that when do you get to take care of yourself and the answer is you know

[00:23:32] a vacation once or twice a year and maybe a massage at the spa but that's not it that's not that's

[00:23:37] not giving you the rest that's not doing what you need for yourself right and maybe for some people it

[00:23:44] maybe I'll live in those stress lives I was not right but moving abroad doesn't solve

[00:23:51] all your problems what it does is it gives you a new place to start right and it gives you

[00:23:58] a new situation to deal with right like moving here my life is extremely easy compared to

[00:24:05] what it would be in the US right I can walk everywhere I want to go I don't have to

[00:24:11] pay for a car I don't have a car insurance the bus stops right outside I will get on the bus

[00:24:15] and all of those things and it's a different depending on what you want it's going to be different

[00:24:20] for everyone everywhere you go but the possibility for your life is so different when you get to

[00:24:27] build it from scratch when you get to say I don't want to experience x anymore so I'm going to move

[00:24:32] to a place where I'd hop and do with x right that's what on for when we deal with and it's so

[00:24:38] empowering I'm really happy that you mentioned this idea of being selfish because it's a point

[00:24:45] of conflict for so many black women who may be watching and listening right now who are considering

[00:24:52] a move abroad and I often think about what Audrey Lord said caring for myself is not self-indulgence

[00:25:00] it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare and God do those words ring true

[00:25:08] now more than ever before and I'm really happy that you both have created this space for us to come

[00:25:16] and dream and plan and exit you know it really just eliminate a lot of the the stressors and

[00:25:25] extract ourselves from environments that no longer serve us we don't realize what we're going through

[00:25:34] until we're out of it right you really don't realize how much of your day how much of your life

[00:25:40] is struggle until the struggle is over and you like oh this would have feels like to just feel good

[00:25:47] this is what it feels like to be treated like a human right this is what it feels like to move

[00:25:51] about the world as myself and not like a representative of a race or a gender or whatever our

[00:25:58] class right we don't realize until it's over so that's why we we do just like expedite the

[00:26:05] expedite the process get us there a little bit faster this is what it looks like to move around

[00:26:10] without fear right without wondering what another person is thinking is this is the safe person

[00:26:16] or unsafe right that I don't have it anymore I listen you might be talking smack about me for

[00:26:22] some reason but it's in Spanish and I got a lot of words but I'm not fluent so you don't

[00:26:28] to mean like there's no I don't get that sense in my day-to-day of like is this person unsafe

[00:26:33] from me the way I do what I'm in the US right one light the old woman sitting next to me

[00:26:40] I have earphones earbuds in it she starts talking I'm like wait is this a friendly

[00:26:44] conversation or a non what you know what happened to me the air but be every day and I was like

[00:26:48] I'm a little paranoid about talking to strangers here because I just don't know when it's got to be

[00:26:54] and I don't have that here because people leave me alone or they like say nice things

[00:27:00] or I think it's nice because I don't really I didn't get all those words it's fine it's fine you're right

[00:27:14] you're nervous this time come on talk about it what we'll talk about it yes well at night

[00:27:21] because I don't know nobody 70 you mentioned something a little bit earlier about black excellence

[00:27:29] and I kind of wanted to get into that because I came across something that you said maybe it was a video

[00:27:37] post or something and you were essentially advising folks that we should resist this idea of

[00:27:46] black excellence and stop striving for so much so can you talk a little bit about your ideas around

[00:27:53] that because I know people will be like what? because we throw around that phrase all the time and we

[00:27:58] a lot of us wear it with a badge of honor so what does rejecting black excellence mean to you

[00:28:05] this ties in completely to the conversation about being selfish and my understanding of black

[00:28:12] excellence right which I think is correct my understanding is black excellence prioritizes

[00:28:17] the gaze of other people right how other people see black people as a whole and by other people

[00:28:22] I mean white people right let the concept of black excellence says what white people think of us is

[00:28:28] important than what we want for ourselves and that boils down for black women into you have to

[00:28:35] accept the idea that you have to do work twice as hard for half as much right this all goes in

[00:28:41] together so once you have lived your life believing that you're supposed to work twice as hard to get

[00:28:47] half as much and you know keep keep striving and keep struggling until you rise higher and higher

[00:28:53] in other people's opinions right in other people's eyes at the cost of your own self at the cost

[00:29:01] of your own agency right once you live your life that way you are actually upholding white

[00:29:08] supremacist ideology if you live your life as though you are supposed to work twice as hard and get

[00:29:13] to get half as much you're upholding the very thing that you hate you're an agent for white supremacy

[00:29:19] I think that black excellence has done so much harm to black women but in a with a smile right

[00:29:26] it's been a wolf and sheep's clothing in our lives and so I rejected and I love to see black

[00:29:33] women rejected I'm a house sitter I do as little as possible I feel good I know myself I like

[00:29:40] myself I like the way that I move throughout the world I don't have to judge myself based on what

[00:29:46] one else is going to think of me how someone else is going to categorize me I don't have to fit

[00:29:53] into a very tight very small very cramped box in order to value myself even though black

[00:30:02] to black excellence I am useless and it feels really good to be the boss of you it feels really

[00:30:10] good to have agency over your life and not have black excellence being charged of what you do

[00:30:15] don't do how you look and don't look where you go who you associate with if nobody is free until

[00:30:20] everybody is free that we have to reject black excellence because black excellence is only prioritizing

[00:30:27] a certain group of black people black they are people black excellence is always going to exclude

[00:30:33] you can tell that this is the thing that I really I really feel feelings about there are people that

[00:30:37] have black excellence is always going to exclude a large percentage of black women it's always

[00:30:46] going to exclude the single mom the under-employed the unemployed the disabled it's always going to

[00:30:53] exclude those people so let's reject it let's try a new way of being and let's let that be way

[00:31:00] of being come from our own sense of self our own agency and not from trying to please people

[00:31:09] we don't even care about anybody we got even interested in what they're talking about anyway

[00:31:14] right right and there's some out that is such a thought provoking perspective

[00:31:19] glad we're she there's something about black excellence within the black communities too

[00:31:23] because even if you don't think you're playing for the white gaze even if you're like oh

[00:31:28] I don't care about them right the black gaze you're playing for a curious about the white gaze

[00:31:34] it's one of those things that I talked to people when I do coaching about this that like a fake

[00:31:38] kind of standard because it's always going to move right like if you're all even if you don't

[00:31:44] think about it but like if you're like I am black excellence I find that most people it's more

[00:31:50] it's more like they're striving for it then they actually feel like they embody it and it's always

[00:31:55] like the next step it's like when I ask people how much money is enough money to retire it's

[00:32:00] always more money than they have today and I'm not okay all how much money is it and they're like

[00:32:04] oh I don't I don't know the same way like no matter what your job is if you really believe in this

[00:32:10] like the bigger the better right like it'll never be enough if money is what like you focus your

[00:32:16] world around you're never going to have enough money as so you're always going to be working

[00:32:22] harder it's like I was thinking about that this week when people were talking to Michelle Obama

[00:32:27] came up and you know lawyer she was you know do it all the things working up the hospital doing

[00:32:35] all the things first lady and it's still not enough people like she should have run for president

[00:32:41] and I'm like that lady does said she's hired she don't want to do it but like so many people are

[00:32:48] that's what she should do stop telling black woman what they should do stop it part she is

[00:32:53] she says she's hired right but it's never like what she has contributed is never enough because

[00:33:02] she could do more she could save she could do and it's like for who she has said what she needs

[00:33:09] right and people are putting that on her because even that with all the things she has

[00:33:15] she has accomplished in her own life mother two grown children right all of that stuff

[00:33:22] there's always another level there's always another level it's always a live

[00:33:27] a nap right like where I before tell a black woman what they should or should not do

[00:33:33] go ahead and take a nap and my job is this right like we don't have to do this

[00:33:37] if there's no if you're on the black excellence trainer is no stop you could even always do more

[00:33:42] you could always be more prestigious you could always they can't even advance to your places with

[00:33:48] bougier black people cut it cut it yeah in the deserts and you're back at the before but snow natural

[00:33:55] exit there's no you happen actually right breaks up and say I'm done because there's no

[00:34:01] there's no like oh here's an off ramp right there are no off ramps you got to turn the car over

[00:34:05] right turn the hard and flip it and get off that highway there's no other way

[00:34:11] you're absolutely right and these are conversations that I've been having in my own circles

[00:34:18] and when I'm hearing from a lot of my friends a lot of those high achievers

[00:34:23] that are still based in the US is that it's higher, higher exhaustive but and so I keep working

[00:34:31] for a little bit longer it's all going to pay off right so I'll go to pay off at the next

[00:34:35] promotion the next that's all going to pay that's the lie that we're sold you still

[00:34:40] will be black probably still a little in now what yeah yeah and the expectation is that we just keep

[00:34:49] going keep working keep striving until I guess we just fall into the grave you know that's

[00:34:56] against that's it yeah and that's unsustainable it's not a way to live and what I really appreciate

[00:35:02] about what you two have created with the Exodus Summit is it sounds like a safe space for folks to come

[00:35:09] and drop all of the pretentiousness drop the black excellence drop the striving and get real

[00:35:17] and and dream and say you know what this is really how I want to live my life actually I don't

[00:35:22] really feel like work it actually I want to as least as possible I want to eat good food travel

[00:35:28] the world it marks myself in cultures and that is okay and so this is the fifth year that the

[00:35:36] Summit that you all be hosting the Summit how exciting congratulations on making it to five years

[00:35:43] and it sounds like it's really evolved and can you tell me a little bit more tell us a little bit

[00:35:50] more about the theme for this year's Summit and some of the key topics and workshops that you're

[00:35:55] excited about this year we're focused on the quick exit this year we're focused on getting black

[00:36:02] women and their families out of the US as soon as they want to right as quickly as they want to

[00:36:07] we don't know how January is going to go in the United States but we're pretty confident

[00:36:14] and saying it's not gonna be good okay no matter who wins no matter what happens no matter who takes

[00:36:20] office somebody going to act a fool and so let's make our quick exit some for some women that will be

[00:36:27] a long term exit for some it'll be you know a little shorter it'll be being just not being here during

[00:36:32] that time but that's our theme for this year we want to get black women and their families out quickly

[00:36:37] you don't have to there's a misconception that there's only a certain type of person who can move

[00:36:42] abroad right you either have to be retired vote load a cash or if you're younger then you have to be

[00:36:49] just like an irresponsible person who's okay with like leap in the net will appear we'll see what

[00:36:54] happens but that's not how either one of us have done it that's not how the women in our community do

[00:37:00] it and so this year we're focused on had different ways that people move abroad and different needs

[00:37:04] that you may have your family may have that you think are roadblocks right that you think or

[00:37:11] reasons you can't go which in some cases are actually reasons why you should go so we're focused

[00:37:16] on the roadblocks so things that you know you're not independently wealthy you're not single maybe

[00:37:22] or maybe you are you're not retired or maybe you are but you know what are the roadblocks and what are

[00:37:29] the ways that people have done the thing that you want to do even though these hurdles were also

[00:37:35] in their path and it's funny because we see you probably see this yourself you see a reflection of

[00:37:41] yourself in your own community and some people think I don't look like the leaders of the community

[00:37:46] it's not relevant to me we just had a conversation this week with our friend Haleesee from our

[00:37:50] Black Utopia and we're telling her that we often women come to our community who are like oh I'm not

[00:37:56] single or oh I have kids so I guess I can't move abroad now she's merrily and she comes across

[00:38:02] women who are saying like oh I don't have a husband so I can't move abroad and so

[00:38:07] because they're not seeing the possibility models that we talked about earlier in us ourselves

[00:38:13] they think it's not applicable to us so one of the things we love doing at X-Distumma is bringing

[00:38:18] in women who can tell the stories we can't tell like we have women talking about get your

[00:38:23] children as school we don't know about that I couldn't tell you about getting your child into a

[00:38:27] laundromat much less school like I just I still have it right like I don't know and so we have

[00:38:32] women coming to talk about that as like mothers who race children abroad what is their experience

[00:38:37] like whatever things applicants to her etc so that other mothers can see the same thing we will have

[00:38:44] a multitude of married women coming on to talk about like what it's like moving with a family

[00:38:51] it's just we know we know we talk all we know every week on YouTube right with this is an

[00:38:57] opportunity for us to gather more women in more places and say let's talk about everything let's

[00:39:03] talk whatever like stuff you said whatever you think is the reason you can't go let me show

[00:39:10] you a woman what the same situation in left right and maybe that's not good convincing maybe

[00:39:15] you're going to still get to think it's not possible for you but I've I've handed you an oxygen mask

[00:39:20] right like I have handed you this mask if you want to put it on we are here for you our Facebook

[00:39:25] community is here for you all right one of the things I love that our community does is they always

[00:39:29] get together and form a counterbility groups and so pods sometimes are large like 40 people

[00:39:33] and sometimes are just like two people groups but they leave the summit with like someone hold whose

[00:39:39] hand they can hold if they want that and so it's just kind of all encompassing moment of like love

[00:39:46] that's and everything I'm sorry I get really worked out when I talk about our community because

[00:39:51] my favorite place on the internet and our women are so from day one have been so kind and

[00:39:57] generous to each other now some of them do it too much like going on vacation together and not

[00:40:02] inviting us how dare they why would you do that oh I flew to so and so for so and so

[00:40:11] so it's birthday party I didn't get it what was my advice I was and we didn't right but like they

[00:40:19] flew we they're starting use pods and these like family units right around the world and we love it

[00:40:27] love it yeah we love it yeah so we're talking we also have some sessions on some more universal stuff

[00:40:32] how do you find where to go like yeah sure sounds good but how do I know what my needs are

[00:40:37] and how do I find a place that I'm gonna like and that we're gonna probably like how do you investigate

[00:40:42] how do you how do you like a vet a city or a country that you want to move to how do you get

[00:40:47] residency in a place a lot of people think you need citizenship in another country you don't

[00:40:51] so how do you get residency in a place so we have some more universal talks but we do have some

[00:40:55] talks specifically for the women who already think who may possibly think is not possible that's

[00:41:02] incredible that the summit helps to demystify the exit right because it can be very intimidating

[00:41:10] and speaking of your amazing community I happen to be in a part of the Exodus Summit community

[00:41:17] along with 18,000 other women and so when you think about your community what are you

[00:41:25] hearing from them lately what's on their minds about life in the US right now especially everything

[00:41:30] that's going on it's interesting because our Facebook group started as a part of the summit we

[00:41:37] held this very first year we held the summit in there when it was over I was like okay we all

[00:41:41] close the group now right Stephanie she was like no let's see if it opens you would happen

[00:41:47] and 18,000 people later it's a little harder to keep track of like what's going on

[00:41:53] what we're seeing now is black woman joining at like a rate that exponentially beats what it was

[00:42:00] in the beginning this the pace at which we have to approve people to get in the group is kind of

[00:42:07] women who are interested in this ways before I think we had to that set it more but like explain it

[00:42:15] more now will mirror like oh I'm in like what do I need to do where do I go what do I what do I sign up

[00:42:21] right like on this 22nd we've had multiple women by tickets on accident for this year some

[00:42:27] in October from like we bought last years ticket thinking it was this year's ticket because they are

[00:42:33] ready to how yeah there's so inside of our community we have we're all like the second wave

[00:42:39] of like community members I think we have the original community members who maybe were more equipped

[00:42:46] to move quickly because they were retired already or because some for some reason it was

[00:42:53] there was less there were fewer hurdles in their path now we have women in the community who are

[00:42:58] going to need to take a few more steps who are not all you know it's nice for you to do it but you

[00:43:04] had an X number of dollars in the bank you know oh it's nice for you but you have a husband who

[00:43:09] pays for what I right now we're on to the women who are just you know like every day regular everyday

[00:43:14] people who now are seeing what's possible for themselves too so we're calm like time like on the

[00:43:19] second wave I think even in the general move abroad space that we started to see pickup around the pandemic

[00:43:27] for in the beginning we saw the first people out were the people who had the means to be out right

[00:43:33] who had the means to do it and now we're seeing more people people with regular jobs people who

[00:43:39] have still have to work every day you know still have to log on somewhere to a job are now the

[00:43:44] ones who are interested in it so it's been it's been a nice like evolution we're also seeing

[00:43:50] the people who are friends of the people that we help get out already right like oh you know my

[00:43:56] girl so on so said you helped her and that that's who we see in the second wave as well that's

[00:44:01] really nice hey friends I want to take a quick moment to let you know that if you want to dive

[00:44:04] deeper and unlock more advice and insights on X pet life that I encourage you to become a friend

[00:44:09] of the show you'll also access other behind the scenes and bonus content you won't see anywhere else

[00:44:15] just head over to blackxpetsdores.com slash support to upgrade your access now back to the show

[00:44:22] yeah that must be so gratifying to to see how the community has really

[00:44:29] mushroomed right and how the word is spreading now there's been a lot of energy and discussion

[00:44:37] around VP Kamala Harris potentially becoming the first black and south Asian woman president

[00:44:44] elected to lead the US and I'm curious to hear your perspectives about how you think having her

[00:44:51] and you had to do it a little bit Stephanie but how do you think having her as a president might

[00:44:55] change the outlook for black folks in the states or do you think it would change the outlook

[00:45:01] in general in my life I'm a very hopeful person I was traveling when the tech thing when all the

[00:45:06] tech stuff went down and I was like oh I think it'll work out tomorrow right in general I'm a

[00:45:13] hopeful in terms of what people in the United States of America are capable of let me just say this I

[00:45:19] don't have a lot of hope that things are going to just be great I don't have a lot of hope

[00:45:24] that people are going to just be okay with us having a black and brown woman president I don't think

[00:45:31] that and I think to expect it is unfounded there's no reason you have no reason to expect things

[00:45:39] to go smoothly based on past history based on current events based on recent history you have

[00:45:45] no reason to expect things to be good I find it interesting that people are so hopeful about the

[00:45:53] not about her presidency or the election but about life post her election because a lot of stuff

[00:46:01] started going a lot of people started crawling out the woodworks when Obama got elected right like

[00:46:07] the rick's is came out extra bits that oh I black man in a tan suit in the what oh that we can't

[00:46:15] had at my whole birth or move man was born right and now with her it's you know the negative

[00:46:23] things about being black and age or Asian or both although how could that be true right like

[00:46:29] the negative things about that the negative things about her as a woman and like how she got

[00:46:34] her position all of those things take as a black woman they take a toll on me right like when I

[00:46:40] have to hear but she slept your way to the top because there's no way a black woman could otherwise

[00:46:45] be successful I'm like what are people saying about me when like they look at what I've done

[00:46:51] in my life we don't even like it's that sharing that over and over and over again is toxic

[00:46:57] and her success fingers crossed isn't gonna do away with toxicity right before we came on

[00:47:05] I gotta email him so I might I'd today you know to say about um I moved to a program I run

[00:47:11] and it's almost bonded but like they had plans to go abroad but they put them all in hold

[00:47:15] it is all comola from here on they don't want to hear nothing from me they are they're in

[00:47:20] doing the work they're in and I'm like my head I like I wish you won't for you and that's not

[00:47:28] that's not to say that like her policies aren't going to help you or that her presidency is an

[00:47:33] important for the country it's just that if you put all your eggs in this basket right when she gets

[00:47:41] elected what does your own look like right like what what is going to what's your life going to

[00:47:48] be like if you've put everything that you need for yourself on hold for this important thing right

[00:47:59] I'm not gonna say it's not important but like you also have to remember who you are and where you are

[00:48:06] right America's not going to get better right on January 7th or November whatever like

[00:48:14] no matter who wins it this is all she'll be the streets right there's all she'll be

[00:48:19] in search and grocery stores that's not going to be over because she's elected so putting your life

[00:48:25] or your dreams on hold are you gonna be starting from scratch after the first terrible thing happens

[00:48:32] after she gets elected are you going to be putting your as that winner in a start your plan

[00:48:37] I just I saw the email and I was like I don't okay like all right we have a real

[00:48:44] tie we're so black women we're so tied and connected to keeping this country alive the way it exists

[00:48:53] even though it hasn't done anything for you it hasn't done anything for you it hasn't

[00:48:57] where it's not working out well for you but we're so committed to it without any cause if this was

[00:49:04] marriage nobody would say stay right nobody would be like well you can't trust them

[00:49:11] that or you can't trust them there's never in any payoff you've given so much and not getting

[00:49:16] anything in return but maybe give it another four years let's see what happens it is toxic

[00:49:23] it isn't abusive relationship and I mean you could try to shine it up but the room the foundation

[00:49:32] is rotten so it really is okay it really is okay to do something better people as long as humans

[00:49:40] have had feet we have moved to a new place for a better life it's okay to move the new place for a

[00:49:46] better life you are no less deserving than anybody else I ask everybody thank you for saying that

[00:49:55] as people say things like I'm not leaving because I'm not leaving without my reparations

[00:50:01] okay you not going over right you'll be staying right there right I don't know what it's looking

[00:50:08] about it but like America has paid reparations before to people and that's right not to us though

[00:50:16] right like we could to people who were people together later than we were if reparations were

[00:50:22] okay they would have paid already right so that's right and if you are the one here

[00:50:29] you're an ACH right send that right send that right to my bank you said everything

[00:50:35] I sure is we are a risk of taking money out of my bank you can surely send money to me right

[00:50:41] right right now right so absolutely so it's it's really fascinating how you receive that email

[00:50:51] from that person who said I had plans to black sit but because of VP Harris running

[00:50:59] it's on hold how do you think it might impact the blacks it movement if she wins and then

[00:51:07] conversely how do you think it'll impact it if the other party wins overall I think there won't be a

[00:51:13] whole lot of it's not like people are going to stop moving abroad it's not like black people are

[00:51:20] things are not going to improve so fat foundationally fundamentally in the country that people

[00:51:25] are just going to stop moving abroad some people made delay some people might want to put it off

[00:51:30] and I think some people will rush and move a little faster I don't mean rush but I mean some

[00:51:35] people will want to move a little fast because I don't have a whole lot of hope for the for no matter

[00:51:41] who wins I don't have a lot of hope that there will be any foundation on fundamental change in the

[00:51:47] people or the system of government I don't know honestly I don't think it'll be it'll cause that

[00:51:52] much of a delay or a it was not going to cease the movement of black people moving abroad the exit

[00:51:57] is still going to happen may happen on a different timeline I think her her campaign is bringing

[00:52:03] a level of joy into the US so we haven't into the political conversation that we haven't seen

[00:52:08] in a long time yeah but if she wins she's still going to be president and I mean have we ever had a

[00:52:15] student who was in a war criminal like I think what what I mean is that like I think she's new in

[00:52:21] shiny in a way right now and after a few years she's going to be making tough decisions and she's

[00:52:26] going to be less new in shiny right like not that she shouldn't she doesn't deserve our support

[00:52:32] or that there's a better option out there but like your president's going to push you up at some

[00:52:38] point right and so right no matter how hard you work on her right now if you are realistic

[00:52:46] about what happens in our political sphere you will see her making this if she wins you will

[00:52:50] see her making decisions that you don't support yeah it happens right happens it happens with every

[00:52:56] criminal I thought we will fall in all of her Clinton last night at the DNC and I was like

[00:53:03] forget how quickly we forget I'm like we forget I'm like we forget

[00:53:07] we have all but like okay I might be going to hate I'm just gonna be like okay yeah I love no

[00:53:14] yeah governor well you seem to be a really nice person but Minnesota has been has perpetrated

[00:53:21] some of the most egregious murders of black people that we know right and any seems like a nice guy

[00:53:29] fun it's not just it's the foundation it's the system it's the country okay the problem is

[00:53:38] the country not just the leader but in it's in it's narrow inside of it in the heart of it

[00:53:45] it's rotten it's rotten yeah and Stephanie you know I always say that you cannot reform rotten

[00:53:53] you just can't yeah that this have you I would caution folks I haven't but you you are you are

[00:54:02] welcome to share that and I would really caution folks against just leaning on the optics

[00:54:10] especially right now in their decision making because Rashida you're absolutely right whoever

[00:54:15] gets into that office will have to make some tough decisions and will those decisions align with

[00:54:22] your values that's what you have to ask yourself right it's gonna be interesting to watch for sure

[00:54:28] and it is refreshing to see the joy and the elation and the excitement the energy around this

[00:54:35] particular campaign but we cannot lose sight of you know what you said Stephanie the system

[00:54:42] and how rotten it is and we cannot dilute ourselves into thinking that one person is going to change

[00:54:50] that overnight we still got a Supreme Court that's right like what we're going to do about them

[00:54:56] then I'll write it once but if you would like to it's like it's cypress and fresh blood

[00:55:03] no but like if you're right it's rotten and there's very little that we can vote right oh

[00:55:09] that's been voting as long as black people can vote and look at us right I'm not saying don't

[00:55:14] I'm saying that like even now our elected officials rarely do what we want them to do

[00:55:24] and there's a very little reason to believe that when you vote for the next one all of a sudden

[00:55:29] they're going to be different. Obama wasn't different yeah right that's right there's yeah

[00:55:34] with reasons criticize him and what he did in office I'm in Mexico right I am in Mexico

[00:55:46] right all living our best lives yes right yeah right best life yeah now some critics argue that

[00:55:56] the blacksid or exiting the United States is about abandoning the fight for equality

[00:56:05] how do you respond to that and what would you say to black women or black folks in general

[00:56:11] who feel conflicted about leaving go someplace where you don't have to fight for equality

[00:56:20] or things go out they's without law think about how long you've been fighting and how far

[00:56:24] for equality you are like if you're you're in your 50s you've been fighting probably for at least 45

[00:56:30] years like actively feeling the inequality how much closer are you to what this utopia this equality

[00:56:39] is it'll happen in the next five years is equality around the corner because I don't have

[00:56:44] five more years to fight in me I don't yeah I don't I want to be other criticism back to

[00:56:50] what I'm bringing up now that you mentioned that is colonization right that we're just the new

[00:56:55] colonized yes let's talk about let's get into it which we're not all of it I say oh they're not talking

[00:57:08] but they absolutely are in the sense that like you're part of the four in a group and if you act

[00:57:15] like them others they go and treat you like those others and sometimes people are trying to discern

[00:57:22] who is who right you're here I believe you have more money than I do then but you know what I mean

[00:57:28] like that that could be what the locals are saying there's a lot of times we in the global view

[00:57:36] Americans are flattened into people with a lot of money and people especially in the global

[00:57:41] south are flattened into people with very little money and so there's inequality there's

[00:57:47] a inequality but exists in kind of the the rebel thought whether it's actual actually exists

[00:57:54] person to person seems to be discounted a lot of times we guess I'll be moving a little funny abroad

[00:57:59] people go abroad and it's like they want to be the colonizers and but they yeah it's not

[00:58:06] black so I couldn't do that right and some people will mindfully and part of what we talk about

[00:58:11] next to the summit is moving mindfully moving to a place where like you are moving to a place where

[00:58:16] you don't have to fight for equality but you are moving to a place where you're not

[00:58:22] stepping on someone else's rights or making it harder for someone who was here before you

[00:58:26] and so that's really important to us as well that like people are being good citizens wherever they go

[00:58:32] whatever that means in that local place because we have learned from the colonizers we do know how

[00:58:38] to go someplace and really take advantage of people and and exploit people and exploit it

[00:58:45] income the inequalities right so we do have to be very mindful we have to be very careful we have to

[00:58:51] make sure that we're putting ourselves in community with people when we go places and not staying

[00:58:55] on the fringes and then taking over because we've called black people have colonized places right

[00:59:00] like period exists right and has most multiple civil to their belt because we need to have

[00:59:05] learn how to colonize and we do know how to do it we do have to be mindful we do have to be careful

[00:59:09] and one of the first things that a lot of people talk about when they talk about going abroad is

[00:59:13] oh when it goes somewhere and buy some land and I'm like uh red flag hey red flag take it easy

[00:59:18] right belong to be a part of the community before you start trying to buy the community take some time

[00:59:25] live in a place get in community with people before you start talking about how you can own some

[00:59:30] stuff there I'm so happy that you both brought this up because like I said it's been quite the

[00:59:36] conversation and you know during my NPR interview a couple months ago I mentioned this and I said

[00:59:43] look gentrification and colonization those are not four gone conclusions for migration we don't

[00:59:50] have to do it that way right and moving mindfully is something that we should be doing and I'm

[00:59:57] happy to know that you both are intentional about spreading that message too and taking that approach

[01:00:06] because it it's so important now let's check for gears a little bit and talk about the practical

[01:00:10] side of things because I know that some who are watching and listening are like okay this is great

[01:00:15] like how I'm overwhelmed by the idea of leaving so quickly right because you both are talking about

[01:00:25] you know pressing fast forward on the exit on the exit is and for some who might think oh I don't

[01:00:32] know if I can do it that quickly what are some smaller steps they can take now to start preparing

[01:00:37] even if they're not ready for a full move right now one of the first things I think you should

[01:00:42] do is really take stock of the life you're living and compare that to the life you want to live

[01:00:49] and not unlike a I live in a one-bed apartment with you know three people and I'd like to be living

[01:00:57] on a yacht in the Ramirez because they knew we all would right but like what is your rent cost now

[01:01:05] and if you moved abroad what are some rents you could be paid right like what's been different a lot

[01:01:14] times we've been talking about this for a long time both of us a lot of times what I see getting

[01:01:18] people's way is either their imagination or very lack of imagination facts facts are what's getting in the

[01:01:24] way they're not doing the research I was saying you got you got to run numbers you have to figure

[01:01:29] out what things cost what you actually pay now what could you pay abroad what you know to me like

[01:01:35] break it down in a way so you know you know the actual facts right like what is it going to cost

[01:01:43] me to live in this city what would cost to live in plight or carmen right what would it cost to

[01:01:47] live somewhere else get that information there's lots of science we can do that you can just google

[01:01:51] lots of good sites for that and then like do that comparison how much money do I have say what

[01:01:58] people don't know how much money they have say how much they all right like the most people is just like

[01:02:04] numbers that I choose not to see right put the blinders on numbers but when you do that it gives you

[01:02:10] a much better understanding of what it will take for you to more broad because we can talk about

[01:02:16] all the things you could do but money is important right like all the ways you can make this happen

[01:02:21] you can make it happen with little money but not no money right like they got to eat

[01:02:27] you got to sleep somewhere right and so money money is important to this and so I would say

[01:02:33] what are the first things to do is kind of get a better hold of your money what you have now

[01:02:37] and what you need for where you want to go and then get in community with some people in some

[01:02:42] places that you are interested in going to you're going to be able to get much better info about like

[01:02:47] what does right really cost what it what are people paying on the ground not what the internet

[01:02:51] says not what somebody paid 10 years ago but what are your friends your years paying right now

[01:02:56] getting community with people wherever any place that you're thinking about moving to there are

[01:03:02] expats there and they're probably a lot of black expats there and they have expat groups

[01:03:07] and they have black expat groups and so getting community with people as start listening

[01:03:12] ask some questions go visit but don't count yourself out yeah don't just assume they

[01:03:19] going to work for you and if you see one person and you tell yourself I can't do what they did

[01:03:25] because they're ex and I'm why find a why maybe there's a why out there living your dream life

[01:03:31] right now just do some more googling and look for someone who's moved abroad with a child

[01:03:37] with the disability with the husband which is almost the same thing with whatever you don't

[01:03:42] mean like just find the thing find the person sorry I said that look for your possibility models

[01:03:54] look for someone who you could look at and say oh I can do that too and see what they did right

[01:03:59] yeah if you're not sure where you want to go join some of the more general groups for expats

[01:04:04] if you're woman and black come to ex there's some bit

[01:04:08] where the yes yes along with a wonderful a wonderful supportive community of 18000

[01:04:18] plus women and I'm really glad that you both mentioned those things because people ask me all the

[01:04:27] time like how can I do it and I'm not I'm not a relocation specialist and it'll claim to be

[01:04:32] but it's one of the reasons why I created this platform because as you mentioned earlier about

[01:04:39] those possibility models I believe it's incredibly difficult to be what you can't see

[01:04:46] and so what you are demonstrating with creating exodus summon in the community around it

[01:04:53] what what I'm doing here with black expat stories and and amplifying the journeys of every day

[01:05:00] people who have done it this is an opportunity for folks to really tune in and see how they can do it

[01:05:09] you don't have to be a social media influencer you don't have to be an a-lister celebrity you don't

[01:05:15] have to be independently wealthy to do this there's so many other ways especially given the proliferation

[01:05:22] of technology and how you know the nature of work has changed and so many of us have now been

[01:05:31] untethered from physical work spaces now I think is as good a time as itty to move would you agree

[01:05:38] I think so absolutely absolutely absolutely a lot of possibilities for people

[01:05:47] it changed my life and I I've been working remotely since 2015 as an entrepreneur but my husband

[01:05:57] it was only recently that he started working fully remotely after the pandemic and when that opportunity

[01:06:05] came when that window opened I was like let's go and we have not looked back so it is completely

[01:06:13] possible for sure can I ask a question because I'm nosy yeah were you the engine that drove your

[01:06:20] family's move abroad oh you know I was yes that's that's why we go to black women that's what

[01:06:32] very like one out of every 20 like husband or wife do those we'll say like the husband was one

[01:06:38] who pushed it every other time is the woman yep you like really helping like x to the

[01:06:44] summit is for black women and families in a sense but like we want the woman to show up

[01:06:48] because we know that when they get the information and they get the resources and they get that push

[01:06:53] they will also push the family that's so true and even market research bears it out in the data

[01:06:58] right I think over 80% of you know consumer decisions are made by women and we're leading the

[01:07:06] charge in this I've talked to so many more women than men on this journey and you know my husband

[01:07:14] was reluctant at first because he was like all we need to do our research we need to wait and see

[01:07:18] and you know I pretty much pressed the fast forward but none of that I was like let's go now

[01:07:24] you know and thankfully he was open to it thankfully he was in a position in his career where he could do

[01:07:32] as well and he was supportive he trusted me enough to know that I wasn't going to you know lead us

[01:07:39] into some craziness so shout out to my husband because I know not everybody has has that level of

[01:07:46] support but I also want to be an example to folks who may have spouses and partners who are as enthusiastic

[01:07:52] or thinking about leaving and saying it's completely possible and now this man is living his best life he's

[01:07:58] gone played pickleball right now it is for him why you're working that's right

[01:08:07] that's right

[01:08:08] it's really hard it really has elevated every aspect of our quality of life you know

[01:08:19] and it's been one of the best moves that we could have made for ourselves individually and for our

[01:08:24] marriage oh good yeah so one of the fascinating aspects of this journey is that it often leads

[01:08:34] to personal re-imension I feel like I'm a whole new woman um now that I have been living here in Mexico

[01:08:41] for three and a half years Stephanie you found success as a house sitter and online educator coach

[01:08:48] saying you're not a house sitter but you are a coach and you pivot it you know from law so

[01:08:54] for those who might be yearning for a change and they might feel stuck or scared what wisdom

[01:09:00] can you share about about embracing re-imvention I think it's easier to build the second time around

[01:09:07] right or the third or the fourth or the fifth you know what you experience you know you don't like

[01:09:13] a lot of times especially in the US where you live hands on where you went to school or your job

[01:09:21] right like who your friends with are saving school job maybe church all of those things are like

[01:09:28] you're there's rarely a point where you get to say like I am now Courtney and this is my new life

[01:09:36] right like this is my new life but or these are the things that I like I always say that like

[01:09:40] good or new place you to be whoever you want right you could change your net and now you go

[01:09:43] by your middle name who don't check you right you get to start over with the things that you like

[01:09:50] and leaving behind the things you don't like and not in like a psychotic she's someone brand new

[01:09:55] every kind of like three months kind of thing which I don't know how crazy that is like I'm

[01:10:00] kind of support that now but I've said it I might kind of support that but you get to it's so much

[01:10:06] easier to change when you're starting over with new people than changing when you're around

[01:10:11] the old people who who've known you for 20 years they might they might be like according to what

[01:10:16] you a podcast right like but new Courtney with the podcast they're like yes of course it

[01:10:24] makes sense right and I think I this thing it's so much easier to create a new life when you're

[01:10:35] absolutely we don't we just don't I said it's already we don't realize how much of our lives

[01:10:41] we didn't even choose right we didn't even choose but she did not interview the woman in

[01:10:46] T.C. one time and she said oh when I traveled I realized that wasn't that much of an introvert

[01:10:50] I had to protect in my life she said in her in her life she always had to protect herself

[01:10:56] and what she thought was personality her personality traits was really just her armor to protect

[01:11:02] herself in an environment where she couldn't be her real self it was like a an armor

[01:11:08] and there's a lot of that going on we don't know you won't you won't know I think you can't

[01:11:13] know yourself as a black woman you can't fully know yourself in such a hostile environment

[01:11:18] you need to be in a more peaceful environment see who you really are see was really in there

[01:11:22] reinvention is real and it but it it comes from the inside it starts on the inside not not even

[01:11:28] you're in a different environment it doesn't come from the outside it's what's already in here

[01:11:33] that has not been a late allowed to live has not been allowed to thrive it's been choked you know

[01:11:38] the weeds are talking out the real you so being a new in a new place does mean that you can be a

[01:11:45] new person but that new person is you you just haven't met her you really haven't talked to her yet

[01:11:50] you haven't met her yeah she's not in charge yet she hasn't had agency yet but she will and she

[01:11:55] you gonna love it yeah yeah and discovering who that person is after being repressed for so long I

[01:12:06] can honestly say it has shifted the way that I see myself and how I show up in the world

[01:12:15] and I want that for everybody however they can get it whether it's moving abroad or staying

[01:12:22] polluted or pivoting professionally it is so worth it it's so worth it now looking ahead what's

[01:12:32] your vision for the future of Exodus Summit I you know five years in being a part of this incredible

[01:12:39] community and with so many inspirational workshops and breakout sessions and panels how do you see

[01:12:50] this thing that you both in birth evolving to meet the change in needs of black women seeking to

[01:12:57] live abroad if COVID would let us live we would love to do some a whole lot more in person stuff

[01:13:02] but Lloyd and Mercy I don't know give thousands of people together doesn't seem like them the

[01:13:07] the best choice I don't know I would love to do more community focused work right more things for

[01:13:13] the women inside of our community more letting more making sure that they are connecting with each other

[01:13:19] and more us getting to see them because sometimes they're out here winning and living and we just don't

[01:13:24] know it because they have been reported back so I can even send more time and then really awesome

[01:13:30] so we can get some updates. I think also we haven't talked about this but I feel like

[01:13:40] part of our future is making ourselves not a relevant but like unnecessary

[01:13:49] right we have so many people who started their sabbatical or mover broad journey in our community

[01:13:57] who now help other people with their sabbatical or mover broad journey and it never feels like

[01:14:03] competition to me it feels like oh that's someone who could reach a woman I was never going to reach

[01:14:07] right that is someone who can who can help a woman who would never hear the words as they come out of my mouth

[01:14:13] and I hope that definitely I both like to do very little not much. I want to be

[01:14:20] that on a boat somewhere that's what we want for our lives and so if we're not doing this in

[01:14:30] 10 years because other people have taken over and like especially babies that we've burst

[01:14:36] please and thank you please and thank you right I don't know it's not the kind of thing where we

[01:14:41] hand it to someone right now but like seeing all the people holding like that we've held their

[01:14:48] hand and now they're holding someone else's hand as they go to Virginia it's what we want right it's

[01:14:53] what we want to see you want to see these women helping other women so that you know we're not

[01:15:11] yeah yeah we also not be right to not be needed anymore to be really awesome and maybe ponies also

[01:15:18] she didn't ponies I feel like I moved up to a big horse oh you want a full size I feel like I would have

[01:15:26] a full size of horse and maybe a race car oh okay okay good good and you know it may be

[01:15:38] 10 years from now there will be an emancipation summit right so folks can you know that you've helped

[01:15:49] exit celebrate their their new found freedom because you're right I think that as as we continue

[01:16:00] to live and as you know migration patterns continue to change I think that the

[01:16:08] exit is summit will still be necessary but maybe just in a revamped way maybe the emancipation

[01:16:15] summit I love no it's you out I art art wrote it down I like the way that sounds but maybe somebody

[01:16:20] else don't have to do it guess if anybody else is doing it you already done so much for us I

[01:16:29] hear that but my so it's funny we have we lead very very blessed lives that we do

[01:16:38] as a little as possible I would say November to August but you're talking to what's the

[01:16:44] August now this is our our hard work team season and we're only like five days into hard work season

[01:16:50] already like what what another meh another meeting like a goh so you know

[01:16:59] whatever somebody's ready to stay like y'all ain't got to do it out there why I got this

[01:17:04] take it away take it away gladly that's right because you know again our ancestors and I dream of

[01:17:13] labor and you know I for one would love to be on somebody's yacht on an island and sit in a mommosa

[01:17:22] with my my flowy resort where yeah so resort where I love her minute that's the perfect

[01:17:31] date let's write her minutes that's right because we deserve it and just say is it deserve it

[01:17:37] and you don't not worry about it don't do anything to deserve it just come on alive black woman I want

[01:17:44] everything for you yeah all the good Stephanie ever shea thank you so much for sharing your perspective

[01:17:53] for taking the time to chat with me today this was such an inspiring enlightening and empowering

[01:18:01] conversation and I hope those who are watching and listening who are considering a move abroad will

[01:18:08] consider also attending this year's Exodus summit it can you share the dates for that and where

[01:18:16] folks can secure their spot it is October 11th through 14 yeah check out the show notes

[01:18:23] here on this on this podcast episode so that you can use Courtney's exact link to get over to

[01:18:30] the summit and there is a way yeah you can give her you can do something nice for her by using

[01:18:37] her link not gonna cost you any extra but she would really appreciate it so do with that way go to

[01:18:43] the show notes her link use it thank you you do like money right you ladies I love money

[01:18:51] and I don't turn it down okay so it's like she likes money and I like money too so

[01:18:59] you know it's funny is that this is the first time in my life where I've had the ability

[01:19:05] to just give black woman money in a way that like and not like go one z2's you kind of

[01:19:12] way but like everybody gets to eat right and it's there's something that is

[01:19:20] it's a she code that nobody ever told us about like pain as a black woman pain other black woman

[01:19:27] sending you that is out cash right finding a way for you to eat when we eat is I was like

[01:19:37] why did white men so stingy when this feels so good oh this feels so good yeah I think

[01:19:43] all my races act too why it feels good why I have to like it's hard to find somebody

[01:19:50] bonus to some give me a little extra cheese on their burger but you know I have a theory

[01:19:57] I think that as black women we are multipliers we just increase and we bring value to every space

[01:20:07] that we find ourselves in and so when you're able to pay another black woman she's then going to

[01:20:13] do the same thing most of the time right and we can count on each other to do that and that's one

[01:20:18] reason why I love being a black woman and I love being a community with black women yes we're

[01:20:25] love it absolutely nothing like it nothing like it nothing like it as speaking of community

[01:20:31] even if you are listening or watching this after the summit is already over I encourage you to

[01:20:37] join Rashida and Stephanie's incredible exodus summit community over on Facebook along with 18000

[01:20:45] plus my be my be even more than this by the time you you get to it other women who are supporting

[01:20:52] each other and making their exodus strategy happen and bringing it to life so Rashida Stephanie again

[01:21:00] thank you for the incredible work that you're doing and I wish you all the best thank you

[01:21:08] thank you so much Courtney thank you so much our pleasure we're subled that we got an opportunity to

[01:21:13] talk with you finally thank you yes I you know what I could not continue doing this without talking

[01:21:21] to the both of you and I'm really happy that we got a chance to connect here too thank you so much

[01:21:26] go see thanks for listening and watching as we continue exploring the journeys of black

[01:21:30] ex-pats finding freedom healing and belonging across the globe are you feeling inspired to embark on

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